Comments on Wylie-Merrick Literary Agency: People is Publishing

All these lovely commentors exemplify why old scho...

2009-09-08T15:28:57.373-07:00

All these lovely commentors exemplify why old school book publishing has not died. Book authors, unless they take to reading their Amazon reviews--don't have to tolerate having a bunch of anonymous posters telling them what to write, when to write, how to write, where to write, etc.

Robert doesn't need to tell people he's being the devil's advocate. My understanding, from reading the posts (something I suggest people actually do before commenting) is that Scott had an interesting POV that WMLA wished to share with those readers who don't read the comments thoroughly.

Several of you were clamoring for Sharene's take on the argument, then when she posts, you continue to harp on Robert and why they aren't throwing poor Scott a bone. As Scott said earlier, he's not here trying to get a literary agent. He's trying to add to a discussion about the future of publishing, a topic that should be of interest to those readers of a blog done by literary agents.

I agreed with several points Sharene makes, including the idea of how ads could be used to market reading to a group who aren't known for picking up the classics.

And that point is exactly it. Are you supporting reading or books? Because while I have enjoyed Ms. Sharfeddin's books, I disagree with her comment here. I think publishing, like other forms of entertainment, has its art and its fluff--and they all suit a purpose. And many different business models can co-exist in the publishing world. If it were an all or nothing game, hardcovers would go out of print as soon as mass market paperbacks came into the picture. But both formats continue to exist.

Those people who contend that print books are superior to e-format aren't really readers--their fetishists. As one myself, I believe I'm allowed to make this statement. I read online constantly. But I still can't resist bookstores and purchasing a book. I'm currently doing an online degree program. But I print out articles that I could theoretically read online. I like to make notes, highlight quotes, and I find it makes it easier to write about what I've read to be able to do so. With non-fiction, especially, I might skim certain things or flip back later to re-read something. I don't find this as easy with online text.

Scott's idea has merit and I really liked Mystery Hack's suggestion of releasing the book in both models. Give the reader a choice. And frankly, I think both would sell just as people frequently listen to an audio book AND read the paperback. Just as people shell out money to buy books of essays that are all reprints from other sources. David Sedaris would be a perfect example of how this model works.

Currently, Chris Anderson has released the audio format of his new book, Free, for free download while still managing to sell enough of the print edition to be #12 on the NYT bestseller list its first week. So Sharene's observation that many forms will continue to exist seems correct to me.

Frankly Speaking Frank. First of all there has to...

2009-08-04T05:36:19.475-07:00

Frankly Speaking Frank.

First of all there has to be an understanding of open and closed source publishing. At present both are available to writers. In other words, if you want to publish your book as it is, you have always had the right to do that and it's easier and less expensive now than at any other time in human history. At the present time, soon after I write this post, it will be published--and it's free. That's because I'm publishing in open source media. I'm the acquisitions, editor and copy editor. There's no distributors involved, no marketing people to satisfy, and no publisher because I do it all right here. Now in closed source publishing--both electronic and print, someone has to do the acquisitions, copy and regular editing, someone has to do set up for print (this done the same way in both electronic and print publishers), cover art, a marketing director and possibly a complete office staff and there's a distributor--all these people have to receive a pay check and, on top of that, there has to be a profit. So in Scott's model and the one you're so overjoyed about (open source publishing where everything submitted is published) there can't be much overhead or it won't work--you can't give away free books in other words. Open source publishing goes on all the time. A place called Authornet will put your book on their Web site for a small fee--thousands of writers put their books on their Web sites and some put books, chapter by chapter, on blogs. However, electronic and print publishing (closed source) slogs on. I don't see the death of publishing as you envision it. Open source is already here and has been here for years, yet no one pays much attention to it. Put ads in it and people will pay even less attention to it.

Mystery Hack, Patience, my man, patience. I have ...

2009-08-04T05:09:34.977-07:00

Mystery Hack,

Patience, my man, patience. I have a literary agency to run.

To answer your question about putting ads in print books, this suggestion was floated a couple of years ago as a way to reduce the cost of books and help to get major publishing on a more solid footing. But since then, I've not heard anything more about it. I'm thinking ads in print books might work better in some non-fiction books then it would in fiction novels. Why do I say this? I say it because fiction is in trouble as it is and because of this, I think publishers feel that putting ads into something that's in decline anyway, might push the whole category over the edge. As Sharene and I have said in our posts, people, readers and non-readers alike truly despise advertising of all forms. Some folks will put up with it to get their entertainment at a reduced price, but others will pay more not to have advertisements. Examples might be satellite radio, HBO, Showtime, CDs, DVDs etc, showing that some folks, if given the option, will pay extra not to have advertising in their entertainment. Good question to ask yourself is why there aren't ads, other than those for upcoming movies on DVDs or music CDs. Aren't these overpriced also? In my opinion, I think if given the option of whether to pay less and turn these media other to advertisers, people would opt to pay the extra money. Along that same line, folks were offered free dialup internet if they'd just watch the ads, but not many chose to do it.

Hatchet Man and A Fan, I'm messing with you. I us...

2009-08-03T21:12:49.397-07:00

Hatchet Man and A Fan,

I'm messing with you. I used to work for a guy who answer everything that way--yes--and no. Anyway, who knows what the future will bring. My crystal ball is in the repair shop and until it's fixed I can't predict the future too well. They say they don't have the part,any time soon--that it came from the dark side of Jupiter or one of it's moons--they don't know which. But the next UFO has a shipment on it so they're sure that the part is in transit. Anyway, until then, I'll have to fake it and confess that I don't know the answers to your questions. If someone has some gift that they haven't let anyone know about, please help us out here.

Oh, big news flash!!! Scott just wrote and said that he's sending his next post in a day or so and most of your questions will be answered--maybe, if his crystal ball is working that is. I'm slso hoping, in the near future, to have guest bloggers from conventional publishing give their take on Scott's ideas. We'll keep you posted.

Where is my comment?

2009-08-03T19:13:32.546-07:00

Where is my comment?

Robert: "Hatchet Man, Yes. . . and No..." What? ...

2009-08-03T14:53:20.757-07:00

Robert: "Hatchet Man,

Yes. . . and No..."

What? I don't understand.

Hatchet Man, Yes. . . and No...

2009-08-03T13:56:16.574-07:00

Hatchet Man,

Yes. . . and No...

Robert wrote: If my services are no longer needed ...

2009-08-03T12:53:58.595-07:00

Robert wrote: If my services are no longer needed as a literary agent, I have enough knowledge of general publishing that I could switch into something else in the industry.

If Scott succeeds, there might not be a publishing job for you to fall back on.

Hatchet Man, your scenarios don't include if the b...

2009-08-03T12:47:04.207-07:00

Hatchet Man, your scenarios don't include if the book is so-so or the business model is so-so. You only presented the extremes when those are not likely to happen.

Sharene and Robert, please comment on Hatchet Man's four scenarios, but also inject and comment on so-so scenarios too.

Enlightening and interesting. Robert, Sharene and...

2009-08-03T08:06:26.526-07:00

Enlightening and interesting. Robert, Sharene and Scott, thank you for letting us sit at your table as you guys have your confab and allowing us to ask questions so we more fully understand what you three are talking about. Thanks.

Robert wrote: To answer your question, Scott has ...

2009-08-02T23:12:11.504-07:00

Robert wrote:

To answer your question, Scott has not queried us on his novel, and its status is not known to us because it has really only come up within the context of this discussion.

Not true. In the comment section of your "7/1/2009 Query Policy" blog post (which was the blog post right before your "Demise of Print Publishing" blog post), Scott wrote:

Second, just my luck. My bad luck. Now you're up for mysteries and the current book I'm working on is a science fiction, not the YA kind. *LOL* Oh well. After this current one (I just stepped over the minimum halfway mark of 43,000 words), my plan is...

This has been a really grand discussion. A friend...

2009-08-02T22:25:28.542-07:00

This has been a really grand discussion. A friend sent me a link to Scott's Part 1 on Friday and I have been reading through all of it from "Demise of Print Publishing" to this latest blog post. There are so many unanswered questions and I really hope Scott continues sharing what he's thinking and planning on doing.

And here's my contribution. First a little about me. To date, I have had published twenty-four novels (twenty mysteries, three thrillers, and one romance). My bread-and-butter are naturally mysteries. They pay the bills and enable me to live a comfortable life as a full-time novelist. Not lavish. No castle or private island, but a nice home in the suburbs and kids in private schools. A couple of cruises a year and the ability to attend all the mystery conventions that my wife will let me attend. She says they inflate my ego too much so I'm only allowed a strict diet of one a month and none during December. But enough about me.

Robert asked A Fellow Pen some questions and opened them up to all of us writers. I'll address the last one.

"What is wrong with publishing today?"

I think the problem with publishing is books are getting ever more expensive and that is reducing sales. Every increase in price results in a decrease in sales. We are pricing ourselves out of customers. This trend will only get worse. Something has to be done to reverse it.

I think Scott's idea could be the answer, but possibly not in its current form. What about a hybrid of it? What about putting ads into print books? Between the chapters. Advertisers pay and the price of books are reduced. Cheaper books = more book sales. More book sales = more people reading books. Possibly advertising can reduce the price of hardcovers to a mere $5! What about that? Has that been tried? I've asked around and no author I know can recall anyone trying it. I called up my agent today and asked him. He's never heard any publisher doing it.

What about giving that a try? Have you proposed such an idea to Scott, Robert? If not and you think it might be worth a shot, how about suggesting it to him? Wouldn't that be a grand experiment?

Have Scott's science fiction novel come out in two forms. A regular hardcover book priced at the current rate for hardcovers ($29.95) and one with ads between the chapters for $5. Same story. The two types sold side by side and then let the public decide which they prefer more. Think of the big public debate this might cause. I bet newspapers would run articles on this contest. What do you think, Robert? Sharene?

Sharene and Robert, Why don't you simply ask to s...

2009-08-02T21:16:32.153-07:00

Sharene and Robert,

Why don't you simply ask to see his novel? If a friend of mine was writing one and I was a lit agent, I'd naturally ask to see it and offer to give him my professional opinion about it. Or aren't you that close of a friend?

Sharene, If you can read this, be assured that we...

2009-08-02T21:12:06.197-07:00

Sharene,

If you can read this, be assured that we are working for your release. The RR (Robert Regime) will be defeated. All RR's slaves will be freed and you with them. Hold on! Don't give up hope! We're coming!

Robert, what exactly is it that I'm supposed to d...

2009-08-02T21:08:13.845-07:00

Robert,

what exactly is it that I'm supposed to do for Scott?

Help him. I don't agree with what you told Frank Speaking Frankly about his suggestions. I think if you offered to do that, it would enable Scott to at least appear to have a knowledgeable third party essentially endorsing his novel. You being established lit agents can say that. Something like:

We at the Wylie-Merrick Literary Agency think Scott's novel is a great piece of science fiction. We would love to pitch it to the major print publishers (whom we believe will want to publish it), but Scott is interested in seeing if advertisers (like those you represent) would instead like to advertise between this novel's chapters and then release it as a free ebook to the public.

While that won't help him completely, it would help.

Nor do I agree that you must wait for Scott to ask before you offer can offer help. If you're really a friend, you offer help without waiting for your friend to ask for it.

As for your questions, here's my replies.

What do you see in this for you as a writer?

A chance to continue to be a full-time novelist into the future.

Also, do you think that Scott's theory will solve all of publishing's problems?

Who cares about publishers? I don't. I don't know any author who actually does. You need to hang around authors more often and you'll find out we despise publishers in the worst way.

What Scott is proposing will kill them off and good riddance. It won't kill off us writers nor agents. Or rather, it won't kill off agents willing to change. Those agents that cling to the old way will go down with the ship. In your last paragraph to Frank Speaking Frankly, you sound like one of those change-resistant agents. Very much so and no one, not even Sharene, can say that can be misinterpreted. On the bright side, you'll have no trouble finding a good deck chair as the Titanic sinks.

What do you think publishing's problems are that would make you want to see it drastically changed? ... What is wrong with publishing today?

You don't see any problems with print publishing??? You're either joking or clueless. In either case, I'm not interested in getting into an argument with you. Contrary to what Sharene tried to do in her blog post, you torpedoed all her effort in that last paragraph to Frank Speaking Frankly.

Sharene and Robert, Here's what I see as four pos...

2009-08-02T20:39:06.251-07:00

Sharene and Robert,

Here's what I see as four possible outcomes for Scott's experiment. These partly inspired A Cold Splash of Reality.

Scenario #1: His novel is crap and his business model doesn't work. RESULT: Bad reviews and no financial success of any kind.

Scenario #2: His novel is an instant-classic and his business model doesn't work. RESULTS: He wins awards (Hugo, Nebula, etc.) but it financially fails.

Scenario #3: His novel is crap but his business model works great. RESULTS: Critics rip on the novel (no favorable awards) but it is a financial success.

Scenario #4: His novel is great AND his business model works great. RESULTS: Awards and riches. Fame and glory.

The interesting thing about the above four scenarios is that #1 and #4 don't provide good conclusive results. With #1, why did it fail goes unanswered. It could have been for either reason. With #4, while it shows more conclusive results than #1, it might not be results that can be repeated by other authors since they very likely will not be able to always produce instant-classics.

What is interesting is #2 and #3. They would show whether or not Scott's business model works or doesn't. With #2, it had the benefit of a stellar piece of fiction but nevertheless failed because Scott's business model couldn't capitalize on it. With #4, Scott's business model is so good that it can make even a piece of crap into a financial success.

I know this will sound odd, but if Scott is doing this experiment to prove his business model works, he should purposely write up a suicide-inducing piece of fiction and try to make it a financial success. Am I right or am I wrong? See any holes in what I'm saying?

Dear A Cold Splash of Reality, What you hear is a...

2009-08-02T15:34:26.643-07:00

Dear A Cold Splash of Reality,

What you hear is a great sigh of relief. Finally a person who has actually read the posts and sees some holes. lol

To answer your question, Scott has not queried us on his novel, and its status is not known to us because it has really only come up within the context of this discussion. We are sure if he deems it to need representation at some point, he will ask us to read it and see if it's marketable.

However, according to his current model, he plans on offering it free as an e-book download. In that form, he would not need us or anyone in publishing for that matter. If his work is successful and his model works, then he has a trial balloon from which to launch his publishing career. If it fails, then possibly he might contact us. . .

Frank Speaking Frankly, Since this is a big chunk...

2009-08-02T14:16:17.767-07:00

Frank Speaking Frankly,

Since this is a big chunk, I'll try to answer line by line.

Fifth, how I think W-M can help Scott out is by representing his sci fi novel to ad firms.

He's not asked me to do this for him--plus I have no contacts at ad firms. I'm in the publishing realm not the advertising realm.

If Scott does it himself, he's just some Joe off the street. If W-M does the contacting, he'll be taken seriously.

Scott is a marketing expert and thus he's familiar with the world of advertising. I am a literary agent, although I did at one time contact ad agencies, that was when I was a kid in Jacksonville, FL. Those ad firms don't exist today. Bottom line is that I have no creds with ad firms and so I'd be just some Joe walking in off the street to them.

Now if you're lazy, over-worked, swamped, or just don't think you have the marketing ability, what I suggest is turn over the initial contact work to Scott.

I'm not lazy, but I do have other demands, "like clients" whose novels and books I represent to publishers. As I said above, I don't have the expertise with ad agencies and therefore would have to go back to college to get a degree in marketing or some area that would make me more knowledgeable in that area. I have no desire go back to college, no desire to get a degree in marketing nor to work in that field. Secondly I don't have the time and thirdly, I don' have the money or the desire to get the money. I'm very comfortable in what I do now. If my services are no longer needed as a literary agent, I have enough knowledge of general publishing that I could switch into something else in the industry. The rest of your comment, I believe is answered this and what I've said above. Scott is the expert. He doesn't need WM or any other agency's credentials as advertising is not publishing and vice versa--but you know that, right? Hope this answers your question. If not I'll try again.

Sharene, have you, Robert, or one of your thankles...

2009-08-02T13:47:00.355-07:00

Sharene, have you, Robert, or one of your thankless slush pile readers read any of Scott's science fiction novel? Any of it? Even the first page? If it is crap, that it then fails to prove Scott's ad-based ebook idea will mean nothing. Do see what I'm saying? Now if it is a great novel that either of you would love to represent to major publishers and both think will win a Hugo and a Nebula as well as go down as one of science fiction's classics, that's another thing. Then what Scott is doing is potentially sacrificing his novel to test his business model. Then I would say what he's about to do would qualify as "noble", as another poster put it.

And if it is really such a great novel, wouldn't it call upon you to try to talk Scott out of potentially sacrificing it to test his business model? You say you love books. If you really don't think Scott's business model is a viable one and his novel is a great one, doesn't your conscience demand you try to get him to get it published the "old" way?

Dear Helen, Playing devil's advocate, yes. I don'...

2009-08-02T13:40:33.651-07:00

Dear Helen,

Playing devil's advocate, yes. I don't know if he's taking notes exactly because I can't see him. :)

Robert, as you asked not only A Fellow Pen to answ...

2009-08-02T12:31:30.299-07:00

Robert, as you asked not only A Fellow Pen to answer your question, I'll jump in with my two cents. You asked:

what exactly is it that I'm supposed to do for Scott?

How about what I suggested in my fifth point in my comment in the comment section of "Ad-Based Publishing--The Debate Goes On". So people don't have to go digging around in the root cellar for it, here it is again:

Fifth, how I think W-M can help Scott out is by representing his sci fi novel to ad firms. If Scott does it himself, he's just some Joe off the street. If W-M does the contacting, he'll be taken seriously. Now if you're lazy, over-worked, swamped, or just don't think you have the marketing ability, what I suggest is turn over the initial contact work to Scott. He's a marketer, right? I bet he can do the email inquiries in his sleep. Just let him use an email W-M email address. It shouldn't be under his name or that would defeat the purpose. I'd suggest making up a fake W-M "junior" agent name for him to use. Have him bcc all the email work he does to one or both of you so you can keep tabs on what he's doing (and possibly learn some good marketing lessons in the process) and then if some ad firm or big-time advertiser says they're interested, you can take it from there. Or let Scott continue to do the work as long as it continues by email until it needs a voice on the phone or face at a meeting whereupon one of you takes over and does the representation. How about that???

Robert, does Scott know you're helping him in this...

2009-08-02T12:25:15.311-07:00

Robert, does Scott know you're helping him in this way?

Robert, admit it. You have Sharene tied up in the...

2009-08-02T12:22:38.353-07:00

Robert, admit it. You have Sharene tied up in the closet and only let her out when people are demanding to know that she's still alive! I'm onto you, Robert! Don't think I'm not!

Dear A Fellow Pen Pal, Sharene is currently busy ...

2009-08-02T12:00:54.151-07:00

Dear A Fellow Pen Pal,

Sharene is currently busy with something and since your question also includes me, I'll try to answer it. But first I have to ask you, and others, what exactly is it that I'm supposed to do for Scott? Scott has already stated that he's testing his theory by writing an ad-based book. As he writes it, he will try to convince advertisers to pay for content- based ads in this project. So far there's nothing to back him in as he hasn't asked me to back him. In the meantime, I'm doing my job as devil's advocate telling him, and you and everyone who comes here about some of the pitfalls such a system might face. Maybe I'm too enthusiastic about shooting his idea down, but that's what I'm trying to do. Every pilot program needs someone like me, or should have someone who sees holes in a theory, holes that must be plugged if the endeavor is going to work--and better before it's implementation than after. Scott is taking notes and you and others get a front row seat to the discussion.

While I'm at it and since you've ask me a question, I'd like to ask one, if I may. My question is this: What do you see in this for you as a writer? Also, do you think that Scott's theory will solve all of publishing's problems? And thirdly, what do you think publishing's problems are that would make you want to see it drastically changed? That last one in particular I think will be of value for people interested in this topic to answer. What is wrong with publishing today?

Sharene, I agree with the others that your post is...

2009-08-02T10:26:21.128-07:00

Sharene, I agree with the others that your post is a good one. My question then is: Does this mean you and/or Robert will help Scott or not?

Though Robert is trying to shut down discussion in the comment section for "Ad-Based Publishing--The Debate Goes On" to move it here, I suggest you read what I and others -- such as Frank Speaking Frankly -- have said in that section.